Episode 2
Values-First Wealth Planning: How Understanding Your Core Values Creates Meaningful Multi-Generational Impact
Join David Murdoch, principal advisor at Paxton Bridge and pioneer of wealth activism, as he delves into the transformative power of understanding core values in wealth planning.
Discover how a unique process involving 15 value cards can help couples and families uncover what truly matters to them, leading to more meaningful financial decisions and improved communication.
This episode sheds light on value-based advising, highlighting its evolving role in the financial profession and its impact on multi-generational wealth. Learn how aligning wealth with values can create a lasting, positive impact on your life and those around you.
You can get in contact with David Murdoch on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidsmurdoch/
Or you can reach out to Paxton Bridge
https://www.linkedin.com/company/paxton-bridge/
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This podcast has been produced by: https://podcastsdoneforyou.online
Transcript
Values first, wealth planning.
Anthony Perl:How understanding your core values creates meaningful multi-generational impact.
Anthony Perl:In this episode, David Murdoch, the principal advisor at Paxton Bridge, the pioneer of wealth activism, talks about how values shape our financial decisions.
Anthony Perl:Discover how a unique approach using 15 value cards helps couples and families uncover what truly matters to them.
Anthony Perl:Beyond just the numbers, David shares how this process often leads to surprising revelations, better communication between partners and more purposeful financial choices.
Anthony Perl:I'm your co-host Anthony Perlin.
Anthony Perl:Whether you're a successful business owner, executive, or family seeking to align your wealth with your values, it's time to activate your wealth.
Anthony Perl:When you talk about value-based approach, David.
Anthony Perl:You start asking this question about what makes you happy and what really is driving the values.
Anthony Perl:I mean, first of all, you know, even before you get into that, how different is that conceptually to what people think in terms of financial management?
David Murdoch:Well, look, it's evolving.
David Murdoch:I would certainly say across the profession.
David Murdoch:Values based advising is evolving.
David Murdoch:But there is still these issues that some people say they want to come and see you, and their first question is, well, should I buy BHP or Rio as an equity?
David Murdoch:It's just, yeah, okay, we can get to that.
David Murdoch:That's a solution to a problem as opposed to, let's understand what your foundations are and why you are making some of these decisions.
David Murdoch:So for us, we have 15 values cards that we ask that we lay out.
David Murdoch:So we set them up in a deck of cards and it's in the analog approach.
David Murdoch:We can do it in digital format, but.
David Murdoch:It's in an analog approach so people get to touch and feel the cards.
David Murdoch:So we would've a process where we would've a couple come in and we would say, right, you've both got your 15 cards.
David Murdoch:And it's always an interesting process.
David Murdoch:'cause some were quite open and they go, oh, this is fun, this is, pick this.
David Murdoch:And then the question is, well, can I pick more than five?
David Murdoch:No, you need to pick five.
David Murdoch:'cause we need to narrow it down.
David Murdoch:Others wanna shield their cards from their partners so they don't sheet and, and, and look and say, you are just trying to copy me.
David Murdoch:But normally we would get, you know, three to four, two to three, you know, cards that are identical for each of the couples.
David Murdoch:And then we need to kind of swap out.
David Murdoch:Some of them are very similar, but the way we approach it is that we ask each of them on an individual basis once they've chosen their top five cards.
David Murdoch:Why did they pick their card and what does that mean to them?
David Murdoch:Now in this instance, it's amazing how some people would look at their pain and go, wow, yeah, okay, I didn't realize you wanted to do that.
David Murdoch:Or in certain occasions, it's the first time they've actually sat down and articulated why they're doing certain things and why that was really important to their.
David Murdoch:We digitally record this discussion because it's so meaningful.
David Murdoch:There's so much that comes into it.
David Murdoch:And so each of them hear each other's reasons, and that's why they can bring it back together to say, as a family and as a couple, what are your top five?
David Murdoch:And then from there, we ask them to rank them zero.
David Murdoch:We're not doing it well to then we're smashing the lights out.
David Murdoch:All that's giving us is a base that's a baseline, but it also gives us a base to answer or to make and to give advice in certain areas that if we may say something or they start to do something that's contrary to what their key values are, we can bring it back to that to say, but that's contrary to what your value was that you said is important to you as a couple.
David Murdoch:Well, that's because we're doing this, this, and this.
David Murdoch:That's okay.
David Murdoch:But it gives us, us, that foundation to understand how we do it.
David Murdoch:Because what that starts to give us is that support mechanism.
David Murdoch:And because we've asked them to articulate why was it important to them, it makes it much easier to say.
David Murdoch:No.
David Murdoch:Like you stop doing that, or that's a great way you hadn't thought of that.
David Murdoch:Let's go down that particular path because that's really important for one of the values that you've chosen.
David Murdoch:And so let's continue to support you on that journey because you've told us what your values are and every individual and couple is different.
David Murdoch:And so part of it is as we work our way through this and then we build upon that.
David Murdoch:So in the end, it might take six months to get to the response that says, should I buy BHP or Rio?
David Murdoch:Now we know why we are doing that because we've understood as an individual, as a couple and as a family group what's important to them through a value-based conversation.
David Murdoch:And that is why we take it down that particular path because it's very important for us to have that foundation in place.
David Murdoch:Rather than us sitting here as the supposed experts, oh, well I'll just tell you what you need to do and you buy this and you sell that.
David Murdoch:And there we go.
David Murdoch:And hopefully I won't come and talk to you for another 12 months.
David Murdoch:No, that's not what we do.
David Murdoch:We want people to be engaged in the process to understand why decisions are being made, and sometimes their decisions will vary.
David Murdoch:We may think when they first come in, I wanna do this, and then as we've worked our way through some of these things because of the values, you know what, what I thought I wanted to do is different now because.
David Murdoch:You've started to help me build my puzzle of pieces to see the vision of where we wanna be in the next 3, 5, 10 years, and how I may want us to put kids and grandchildren or what I wanna do with my business, or what do I wanna do for my mom.
David Murdoch:You know, that's always a, an interesting one where people go, no, no, my mom, she worked really hard and mom and dad were fantastic tours, but.
David Murdoch:Finances may not have been her highest things to, therefore I wanna support Mom 'cause Dad died x number of years ago.
David Murdoch:Do you know what I mean?
David Murdoch:It's those sorts of things that really get people thinking about it, and a lot of it then becomes, it's not about the money, it's about who do I wanna support of the people around me that have supported me in my life.
Anthony Perl:What's interesting is, is you're promoting conversations as well that probably don't quite often happen between couples anyway.
Anthony Perl:Correct.
Anthony Perl:I mean, you know, often I imagine a lot of the couples that you're talking to have been together for a long period of time, so you don't sit down and have a discussion about what your values are because you kind of know you're aligned in some way.
Anthony Perl:You're influenced by different things, right?
Anthony Perl:I mean, my situation, I mean, my wife does some small amounts of work for herself on the side, but largely isn't working full-time.
Anthony Perl:Whereas I'm working full-time and you and I met through a business community, and so we're hearing lots of things all the time.
Anthony Perl:And so you can be on completely different wavelengths as far as some of the financial situation is concerned very easily.
Anthony Perl:So having a forum in which you're actually forced to have that based on values is, is in and of itself a really interesting exercise for a couple.
David Murdoch:Absolutely.
David Murdoch:And you know, we can say that in certain couples, even for me, for my own relationship with my wife, I mean, it's divide and conquer.
David Murdoch:We've got four kids, like over the years, I mean, they're all adults now, but you know, over the years it's like, I've done this, she's done that.
David Murdoch:And there are things that we do together, but there's certain components and it's just worked for us.
David Murdoch:And I'm not saying that that's the way that it should work for everyone, but generally in any relationships, someone will take a lead on one way or the other.
David Murdoch:Okay.
David Murdoch:And is it right to say that you abdicate certain things to the other party?
David Murdoch:Look, yes and no.
David Murdoch:It's just the kind of, the way it's evolved.
David Murdoch:And as I say, you know, that just works for certain couples and there is always those circumstances where they've said, oh look, I've just not really fast.
David Murdoch:I was never told I couldn't spend, but I was always conscious to not overspend.
David Murdoch:I knew there were certain times that we might have had to, we could be a bit freer with it, and other times we had to dial it back a little bit, and that's just those dialogues.
David Murdoch:But I agree.
David Murdoch:I mean, this is why, and look, the values that we use, they're 15 that we've pulled together, and it's from a whole range of different sources that we picked up over the years.
David Murdoch:It's a conversation starter.
David Murdoch:That's probably the biggest issue for us, is that conversation starter as opposed to the definitive answer.
David Murdoch:It just.
David Murdoch:Encourages people to communicate and to not be concerned about a question that's either a yes or a no answer.
David Murdoch:Like an example is one of the things that we can talk about.
David Murdoch:One value is a healthy mind and body.
David Murdoch:Okay?
David Murdoch:You say to people, so why is that important?
David Murdoch:There's no point in me, you know, having all this money if my body's not healthy and my mind's not healthy.
David Murdoch:But if I have a healthy mind and body, it means that I can do all these other things.
David Murdoch:I can spend more time with my children.
David Murdoch:I can spend time with my grandchildren.
David Murdoch:I can spend time with my partner.
David Murdoch:So all of a sudden, from those one four words, healthy, mind and body.
David Murdoch:We have this enormous range of information that they've said that's a really core value to them for a whole range of reasons.
David Murdoch:And when they start to talk about their family, it's important for them to have a healthy mind and body, to spend time with family and friends.
David Murdoch:Great.
David Murdoch:So now you've got a healthy mind and body.
David Murdoch:What are the programs that we can help you do to make sure you have that, to then spend that time?
David Murdoch:And if you wanna spend the time with your family and friends, do you do it over dinner?
David Murdoch:Do you do it over drink?
David Murdoch:Do you do it over some exercise?
David Murdoch:Do you do it on a holiday?
David Murdoch:Do you know what I mean?
David Murdoch:It just all of a sudden it's like, wow.
David Murdoch:When you've told us the reasons why that card or that value is important to you, it just opens up so many different avenues to continue that conversation to determine what are the things that we can help do to support them to support that value.
David Murdoch:And it's as simple as that.
David Murdoch:Like it's not rocket science and that point of view, and it's not always about, oh, you've gotta make sure you get us a 20% return.
David Murdoch:Why do you need to do that when a return on your investments that are available might be at 5% and that gives you everything you need.
David Murdoch:So why are you taking the extra risk?
David Murdoch:Oh, I hadn't thought of that.
David Murdoch:Just that, you know, I saw Pete at the barbecue and he said he was getting this return.
David Murdoch:Okay.
David Murdoch:Well, that he hasn't told you about the other ones that he might have lost along the way as well.
David Murdoch:Like again, what is important to you and your family, not what everyone else is doing on the outside.
David Murdoch:That is a really important thing for me as well.
Anthony Perl:Of course we're influenced by lots of things along the way as well, and different personalities and things.
Anthony Perl:So you talked earlier about the idea of someone coming in and you know, asking about a particular share, for example.
Anthony Perl:Correct.
Anthony Perl:Then the answer might be different for different people because if the one personality types is, it says, look, I wanna hold onto things for a long time, and I have no drama with that.
Anthony Perl:It's not in my nature to buy and sell every two seconds.
Anthony Perl:The next person, it might be in their nature.
Anthony Perl:So even though the share might be worthwhile recommending because of the responses and the values that people have, your answer may be completely different.
David Murdoch:Absolutely.
David Murdoch:And this is when you start to bring the couple in.
David Murdoch:And because we work with a lot of, you know, SME business owners and the broader sort of family group, sometimes the business is a really important component.
David Murdoch:And so again, what is the business doing to support where they want to go?
David Murdoch:It doesn't come back to that individual investment, and it's very difficult to compete on a listed share situation against the private business.
David Murdoch:They've got so much more influence in their own private business about how they can get performance.
David Murdoch:What we're trying to do is to not de-risk, but if there's a capital that's available, let's start to build an asset or an investment pool that's outside of the operating business that has been the primary source of cash for the business to then get a bit of balance to say.
David Murdoch:Okay, this business is great, but now I'm not wedded to this business on its own to survive because I have other investments that are outside.
David Murdoch:But that business has supported me to get to that level.
David Murdoch:And again, that comes back to a range of the reasons that the values of why they've done certain things.
David Murdoch:I. It just gives that ability for couples, but also if they're then saying, now I'd like you to take our children through that.
David Murdoch:So it might be a 60 or 70-year-old couple, and they go, well, now I want you to take our children through it.
David Murdoch:So the children could be in their thirties, their values may be a little bit different, but I still think on a lot of occasions there'll be one or two values that the parents have kind of instilled in their children.
David Murdoch:And then we say, right as a family group, do you understand why mom and dad in their seventies have a view on a few things versus you in your thirties or forties might be a little bit different, but you're kind of in the same realm.
David Murdoch:But where you're at has changed a little bit from where mom and dad are.
David Murdoch:Again, it starts to bring it together about asking people to articulate what's really important to them, and from that, that starts to build out some outcomes that they would like to look at or some of their future aspirations that they might be able to bring.
David Murdoch:And so starts to bring together this ability to get clarity and purpose and this confidence.
David Murdoch:That.
David Murdoch:Wow.
David Murdoch:Look what we're doing.
David Murdoch:We are moving in the right direction.
David Murdoch:I feel that we are moving and look, we're not always gonna get it right, but at least we've got some, not guardrails, but we've got a bit of support to understand that we can bounce, you know, between some of these values a little bit rather than just go, I don't know, we're just rolling the dialers and just hope we're getting the right answer.
David Murdoch:Okay.
David Murdoch:Well, again, no planning is a plan to go nowhere, like and, uh, which direction should I go?
David Murdoch:Well, one step forward.
David Murdoch:It doesn't really matter which way you go if you don't know where you want to go and why you want to do certain things.
David Murdoch:And this is where it comes back into the values with the families.
David Murdoch:There is an enormous amount of wealth that's been generated over the last 30 or 40 years within the country, and that's on a global basis.
David Murdoch:It's not just in Australia.
David Murdoch:And a lot of it's come out of real estate and or, or people selling some very good operating businesses that then it's like, okay, so we've made this, but at what point do we say, right, everyone's got a house and car and people are educated and, and how many more cars?
David Murdoch:How many more houses?
David Murdoch:How many more holidays can you go on?
David Murdoch:Like you can do a lot of that, but there's also a point where you go, well, I've got this excess liquidity.
David Murdoch:Like, I've got my, my capital pool is so good, but all the kids have got stuff.
David Murdoch:So there still comes into, okay, so you've all got houses, you've all got this.
David Murdoch:What next?
David Murdoch:Like what do we do?
David Murdoch:So then how do we educate the younger generation so that they have an appropriate form of education about the family structure and everything else to build it into the multiple generations.
David Murdoch:Like it's exciting to think that.
David Murdoch:From an Australian perspective, it's very short compared to some of the European families, but, and the US families.
David Murdoch:But it's exciting to look at some of these 3, 4, 5, fifth generation.
David Murdoch:You know, I'm not a big advocate, although it all gets lost by the third generation.
David Murdoch:I don't agree with that, and I don't think a lot of research supports that.
David Murdoch:It's being conscious about making decisions.
David Murdoch:As a family droop, and it's about communication and sharing, and sometimes people will have a different perspective, but that's okay.
David Murdoch:So therefore, how do we deal with those different perspectives that someone may want to bring to the table to support the direction they want to go in?
David Murdoch:So again, it just gives a bit of support along the way, and again, it ties it back into this.
David Murdoch:Element of wealth activism around, you've got success, you've got wealth.
David Murdoch:What are you doing with it?
David Murdoch:How are you sharing it?
David Murdoch:Within some guidelines for people to know that they have the support going forward.
David Murdoch:And that again, is a really important area that it's almost like a family support is there, but it's not a free for all.
Anthony Perl:We talk about this all idea of limited set of beliefs, right?
Anthony Perl:That we're all limited by that.
Anthony Perl:And there's an influence that we have of our parents and also circumstances.
Anthony Perl:You know, we talk about now cost of living crisis is one of the most common terms being thrown around everywhere.
Anthony Perl:Yep.
Anthony Perl:And so we're a product of that circumstance and what we've been taught by our parents being able to sit outside of that.
Anthony Perl:That's a difficult thing for some people to be able to handle.
Anthony Perl:But it's an important one, isn't it?
Anthony Perl:I mean, that's what you're talking about bringing to the table is say taking them out of that limited set of beliefs, what they've been taught, the circumstances that might exist in the world at the moment to say, think of it differently.
David Murdoch:Absolutely.
David Murdoch:And so part of it might be that we make this decision and it's like we can break some things along the way.
David Murdoch:That's okay.
David Murdoch:Like that's what it's all about.
David Murdoch:We want, we all understand because.
David Murdoch:We're trying to reset a foundation for them to feel comfortable and confident that the decisions that they're going to make based upon their values that they've chosen is the right decision.
David Murdoch:Now again, sometimes that decision in hindsight may not be the right decision, but at least we've gotta basis of making the decision.
David Murdoch:So we might take three steps forward and turn around and say, oh, now that I've gone a little bit down the path.
David Murdoch:I'm not sure that's the direction I want to go.
David Murdoch:Can we come back a little bit and then turn right or left or even reverse a little bit?
David Murdoch:Because there's a saying that we've used on a few things.
David Murdoch:Life is a one way street.
David Murdoch:You can't back it up.
David Murdoch:You know, we are recording a discussion here.
David Murdoch:We never get that time back again.
David Murdoch:So what we need to be conscious of is we, we are, we're always moving forward.
David Murdoch:You can go right or left, but you can't revert, oh, can I go back an hour?
David Murdoch:Nope.
David Murdoch:That's gone.
David Murdoch:It's a spent commodity and it is the scarce resource that we have anywhere in the world.
David Murdoch:You can never get it back.
David Murdoch:So let's make sure the time that you have available, and that's where we also ask people to say, okay, you caught, or should or would've.
David Murdoch:We're at where we're at.
David Murdoch:Yeah.
David Murdoch:It's like they're saying, they say, when's the best time to plant a tree?
David Murdoch:Well, today, you know, like, we're at where we're at, so let's keep moving forward.
David Murdoch:But.
David Murdoch:Be comfortable that sometimes the decisions you may make may be uncomfortable and others will be, wow.
David Murdoch:We said we were gonna do that and we've sort of hit it within two years and we thought it might have taken us five.
David Murdoch:Oh wow.
David Murdoch:Because we've been supported from the business and also just the guidance and the challenge that we give to people.
David Murdoch:It's like, this is why we engage with people on an advice fee, not as a percentage of funds that are manage.
David Murdoch:We'll get into the food structure later, but, but it's about understanding the advice component, but also you've gotta give us information to help you, and so it moves forward.
David Murdoch:So there's an element of accountability.
David Murdoch:It gets held back to people and they go, oh yeah, you keep asking me that.
David Murdoch:But I just, I haven't.
David Murdoch:I said, well, you said to us that this was a really important thing you wanna get done, so you need to allocate some time to get it done.
David Murdoch:If you don't have the time, do you want us to help you do that?
David Murdoch:Or do we need to go to a third party of some sort, depending on what it is.
David Murdoch:And now again, little bit, little bit, little bit.
David Murdoch:It's like any goal that people have done over the years.
David Murdoch:Little bit.
David Murdoch:Those 1% adjustments are amazing how those little 1% is.
David Murdoch:I mean, it's like any sport or you know, you go through school, university, you're learning to drive, learning a new activity.
David Murdoch:You are hopeless when you start, but if you love it.
David Murdoch:You laugh at your own errors and mistakes, but you learn through the process and then you get better.
David Murdoch:But you may then cap it out at a certain point and go, yeah, I'm happy with that.
David Murdoch:I don't wanna be the professional athlete, but I'd just like to play tennis as an example.
David Murdoch:Do you know what I mean?
David Murdoch:Or I like to go wind surfing, or kite surfing, or, I don't know, whatever activity you may want.
David Murdoch:You just like it for the social aspect as opposed to the competitive aspect, and that goes across all of the things that you end up doing.
David Murdoch:In the engagement that we meet with people on, it's not all about the money.
David Murdoch:It's about clear strategy, about where we are going and why we are doing certain things.
David Murdoch:Yes, the money supports that process, but it's not all about that.
David Murdoch:It's about, oh, great.
David Murdoch:I know I have the capacity to do certain things because that is what I've chosen to do and I've chosen to do that with a partner or with my children or with my grandchildren.
David Murdoch:Because I think it would be an exciting thing for us to do together.
David Murdoch:And so again, this is where the giver of, of that time and resource, it's just an exciting thing to see the, the look on the receiver's face, you know, it can be just like, wow, thank you.
David Murdoch:And it was not expected.
David Murdoch:It's like holidays.
David Murdoch:I love it when you have some of these family holidays where you go away, go, we need to go.
David Murdoch:And all of a sudden it can be a really basic holiday, but it people can reflect back on it and years gone by of how much fun was, or a gathering that you've sort of said, oh look, it's a certain time of the year.
David Murdoch:Look, so and so's gonna drop in and.
David Murdoch:Someone else says, oh look, I'll bring a friend.
David Murdoch:And before you know it, you've got 10 or 15 people around.
David Murdoch:Everyone's in shorts, it's hot.
David Murdoch:You know, someone brings a few drinks, oh, we better get some food.
David Murdoch:And you know, this night sort of evolves and you whack up and the more you go, oh my God, how good was that?
David Murdoch:That was one of the best.
David Murdoch:It was not an organized party.
David Murdoch:It was all pretty basic.
David Murdoch:It was like, I reckon that some of those, I've had a few of those over the years and I've done that with some of the kids.
David Murdoch:It's like that's in my top five, some of those nights, and it just happened not because it was overly planned, but you kind of had a little bit because you were comfortable to have people around you, and it was just fun.
David Murdoch:You didn't need to be spending huge amounts of money.
David Murdoch:It was just the people that were with you is what makes the night or the day, or the event of a holiday fun to be on, not the dollars that you spend on it.
Anthony Perl:Sometimes the joy is in the little things.
David Murdoch:Absolutely.
David Murdoch:Again, the different people.
David Murdoch:I remember years ago when the kids were younger, when parents would come and watch them at, you know, some of those kids' school events and you'd certain think, oh, do we have to go?
David Murdoch:Yeah.
David Murdoch:The ones where there in the music performance or something.
David Murdoch:But the joy on these little children, more so in primary school, the joy that they would see, and it wouldn't be just at my parents, that any of these kids and their parents and their grandparents were there watching them.
David Murdoch:Yep.
David Murdoch:That was just gold.
David Murdoch:I, these kids remember that stuff when.
David Murdoch:Man and papa came along and we did this, and then we went out and like they don't care about the money.
David Murdoch:They just wanna spend the time with you.
David Murdoch:'cause that is the precious resource that's available.
Anthony Perl:Thanks for tuning in to the Activate Your Wealth podcast.
Anthony Perl:For more information about how to get in contact with David Murdoch and the team at Paxton Bridge.
Anthony Perl:To learn more about wealth activism, take a look at the show notes.
Anthony Perl:There's plenty of information there.
Anthony Perl:Including details of the website and all the social media channels to follow.
Anthony Perl:David, this podcast has been produced by podcast Done for You.
Anthony Perl:I'm Anthony Pearl reminding you to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
